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Konas

Miniature Painting

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16 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

Hot off the desk -- Shadows of Brimstone Doomsday Device.  This is basically terrain - it replaces a cardboard token with a resin piece.

A couple of WIP shots and then the (poorly lit) finished picture on a typical game tile.

20181028_145154.thumb.jpg.45b5745da670819e7ea6c6603db6b123.jpg20181111_170508.thumb.jpg.02aec4d080a1885073213ead2c416965.jpg20181112_140946.thumb.jpg.7db9e1b6b671118843f0e47127a62db8.jpg

 

These look great. Nice ambient light effect on the tops. Well done.

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11 minutes ago, Barb Bliss said:

Nice.  I really love your ducky tape.  I haven't had problems losing grip with my bottles and KS holder...

Honestly, it wasn't about losing our grip (although after I dropped a brush full of paint on the carpet this morning, I should think about it for my brushes, hah) ... the duct tape was a cheap/easy way of hiding our names (and dosages) before we accidentally posted a work in progress online.  Duckies were just bonus points. :)

 

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3 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

You might try reaper Neon Yellow.

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/yellow/latest/09287

I've not used it, but held a bottle at reapercon.  It's bright!

 

I will say one thing as I have been working on the Reaper kit minis..

I don't know if it's the reaper paints, the reaper mini material, or the fact that they tell you to not prime the minis -- but I find that the paint doesn't stick all that well to the minis.

I'm definitely having to paint three or four coats to get decent base coat on them... and even then, if I'm not careful, the paint just comes right off when I try to pick it up the next day to start the next coat/step in the process.

My suspicion is that it IS the lack of primer.

@Zoxe do you still prime the Reaper minis, even though they claim it's not necessary?

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14 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

I will say one thing as I have been working on the Reaper kit minis..

I don't know if it's the reaper paints, the reaper mini material, or the fact that they tell you to not prime the minis -- but I find that the paint doesn't stick all that well to the minis.

I'm definitely having to paint three or four coats to get decent base coat on them... and even then, if I'm not careful, the paint just comes right off when I try to pick it up the next day to start the next coat/step in the process.

My suspicion is that it IS the lack of primer.

@Zoxe do you still prime the Reaper minis, even though they claim it's not necessary?

Although you asked Zoxe, I will jump in as I have been painting a good amount of Reaper Bones minis lately. 

They totally DO need to be primed. I know exactly what you mean about the paint, it won't stick to them in spots. Make sure you wash them in soap and water, let them dry, then prime them as normal. It has no ill effects and makes a great surface.

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Just now, Konas said:

Although you asked Zoxe, I will jump in as I have been painting a good amount of Reaper Bones minis lately. 

They totally DO need to be primed. I know exactly what you mean about the paint, it won't stick to them in spots. Make sure you wash them in soap and water, let them dry, then prime them as normal. It has no ill effects and makes a great surface.

Thanks.  Kind of late for this first set, but good to know.

I only asked Zoxe because I know he has done a lot of Reaper minis.. as he's discussed the Reaper KS's, Reapercon, etc.

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1 minute ago, Konas said:

Although you asked Zoxe, I will jump in as I have been painting a good amount of Reaper Bones minis lately. 

They totally DO need to be primed. I know exactly what you mean about the paint, it won't stick to them in spots. Make sure you wash them in soap and water, let them dry, then prime them as normal. It has no ill effects and makes a great surface.

I fell into a rabbit hole on this.  There was just the cutest otter, but a little to feminine for my dear @Konas

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3 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

Thanks.  Kind of late for this first set, but good to know.

I only asked Zoxe because I know he has done a lot of Reaper minis.. as he's discussed the Reaper KS's, Reapercon, etc.

No worries at all.

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35 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

I will say one thing as I have been working on the Reaper kit minis..

I don't know if it's the reaper paints, the reaper mini material, or the fact that they tell you to not prime the minis -- but I find that the paint doesn't stick all that well to the minis.

I'm definitely having to paint three or four coats to get decent base coat on them... and even then, if I'm not careful, the paint just comes right off when I try to pick it up the next day to start the next coat/step in the process.

My suspicion is that it IS the lack of primer.

@Zoxe do you still prime the Reaper minis, even though they claim it's not necessary?

 

While we've been slowly shifting towards Reaper's paints over the past year or so, I really don't have that much hands-on with the white Bones material.* 

At ReaperCon classes, the folks were simply applying Reaper paints directly to Bones - straight from the blister pack -- usually without any thinning (i.e. whatever water was coming thru the wet palette or maybe with a wet brush).  I shrugged and followed the crowd and my paint came out pretty well.  I'll also add that I was grabbing the #9064 Brown "liner" and using that for a dark basecoat to work from.

Reaper paint tends to be thinner than others, meaning most of the time at home I just put a drop on my palette and start painting (if I want thinner paint, I pull from the bottom of the bubble directly against the parchment paper, if I want thicker, I pull from the top).

Are you thinning your paint with water?  Bones is a little hydrophobic, so water will fight you a little bit if you're using a lot to thin your paint.

This post may help:  http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/48669-bones-the-first-coat-is-the-difference/

Lastly, I know there's a lot of myth and legend about paint that sticks and whether you need to wash it or prime it.  Lately I've been in the "better safe than sorry" camp and have been hitting almost everything with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol, rinsing with water, and letting dry for a day (or three if there are a lot of recesses).  I will probably do the same with Bones.

 

*Note:  Most of what I've painted is from Kingdom Death, Shadows of Brimstone, or Dropfleet Commander.  For those, I use a black primer (Vallejo Surface Primer or - most recently - Stynlrez).  I do have some Bones on deck and Bones IV will be fulfilled soon!

Edited by Zoxe

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1 minute ago, Konas said:

No worries at all.

And yeah, I'm only using these minis as a learning experience anyway -- and I definitely am learning a lot (i.e. being higher contrast in my wash than I had been using... still learning to drybrush -- I keep thinking I've wiped the brush off enough, but I think I'm still getting too much paint on when I try it, doing a first drybrush pass of the original base color before highlighting to make the wash stand out more, etc).

I used to think that having solid/smooth color of the paint was the right idea (probably from too many years of working in theater/set painting, where you want the walls 'uniform' in color as if you were painting a house).  Definitely realizing that the little variations give them a much more realistic look, and help the details stand out far more.

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1 minute ago, Thomas Browne said:

And yeah, I'm only using these minis as a learning experience anyway -- and I definitely am learning a lot (i.e. being higher contrast in my wash than I had been using... still learning to drybrush -- I keep thinking I've wiped the brush off enough, but I think I'm still getting too much paint on when I try it, doing a first drybrush pass of the original base color before highlighting to make the wash stand out more, etc).

I used to think that having solid/smooth color of the paint was the right idea (probably from too many years of working in theater/set painting, where you want the walls 'uniform' in color as if you were painting a house).  Definitely realizing that the little variations give them a much more realistic look, and help the details stand out far more.

Try brushing on the back of your hand once you've think you've removed enough paint off.  It's a lot easier to wash your hand than to recover after getting too much paint on the mini.

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2 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

 

While we've been slowly shifting towards Reaper's paints over the past year or so, I really don't have that much hands-on with the white Bones material.* 

At ReaperCon classes, the folks were simply applying Reaper paints directly to Bones - straight from the blister pack -- usually without any thinning (i.e. whatever water was coming thru the wet palette or maybe with a wet brush).  I shrugged and followed the crowd and my paint came out pretty well.  I'll also add that I was grabbing the #9064 Brown "liner" and using that for a dark basecoat to work from.

Reaper paint tends to be thinner than others, meaning most of the time at home I just put a drop on my palette and start painting (if I want thinner paint, I pull from the bottom of the bubble, if I want thicker, I pull from the top).

Are you thinning your paint with water?  Bones is a little hydrophobic, so water will fight you a little bit if you're using a lot to thin your paint.

This post may help:  http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/48669-bones-the-first-coat-is-the-difference/

Lastly, I know there's a lot of myth and legend about paint that sticks and whether you need to wash it or prime it.  Lately I've been in the "better safe than sorry" camp and have been hitting almost everything with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol, rinsing with water, and letting dry for a day (or three if there are a lot of recesses).  I will probably do the same with Bones.

 

*Note:  Most of what I've painted is from Kingdom Death, Shadows of Brimstone, or Dropfleet Commander.  For those, I use a black primer (Vallejo Surface Primer or - most recently - Stynlrez).  I do have some Bones on deck and Bones IV will be fulfilled soon!

Ok - I thought you had done more with the Bones material (thought you had done previous KS).

And no, I am not thinning for the base coat - other than what happens from the wet palette.  I am thinning the washes of course.

 

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7 minutes ago, Barb Bliss said:

Try brushing on the back of your hand once you've think you've removed enough paint off.  It's a lot easier to wash your hand than to recover after getting too much paint on the mini.

It's more trying to judge what is too much.  I am drying it on paper, and can see the difference.. I just don't know what the 'right amount' is actually yet.

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1 minute ago, Thomas Browne said:

It's more trying to judge what is too much.  I am drying it on paper, and can see the difference.. I just don't know what the 'right amount' is actually yet.

Your hand will show how much is going to come off the brush much better than a piece of paper.

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17 minutes ago, Barb Bliss said:

Your hand will show how much is going to come off the brush much better than a piece of paper.

Fair.  But still knowing what is 'too much' and what is 'the right amount' is kind of something I can only learn through experience.

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15 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

It's more trying to judge what is too much.  I am drying it on paper, and can see the difference.. I just don't know what the 'right amount' is actually yet.

I agree with Barb that testing on the back of the hand is useful to judge how much is on the brush. 

It sounds like maybe you're asking about color selection.  

Two things:

1. I have been known to do quick test pieces to test color combinations to get the full "color stack" before I commit to a model.  Use sprues, discarded extra parts, popsicle sticks, whatever.  With a good brush on primer, it doesn't take long to messily dab some paint on something to see if you like the result.  When I did the Tin Man for the Shadows of Brimstone contest, I actually painted some extra models with 3 different combinations of colors and then picked the one I liked best for the contest piece.

2. Reaper sells "triads."  This takes the guesswork out.  For my Kingdom Death contest entry for Miniature Monthly, I knew I wanted his sash to be teal, but I had no teal paint.  Reaper sold a 3-pack blister of paints that got me 90% there - I still needed to shade down the dark paint to be darker and the lightest needed to be brighter in a few places (so I took their 3 pack and made 5 colors from it).  (I'm really not trying to be a Reaper sales promoter, honest!)

 

Aha, I see your reply.  Honestly, knowing when you're "done" is always subjective.  I try to do just a little more than what I think I need.  Hold the model at arm's length (not under your desk light) to see how it looks in the room.  Also, our acrylic paints always lose a little bit of intensity (aka saturation) as they dry - so that wash that looks great wet will be less intense dry, and that dry brushing that looks wonderful will "dry in" and be less obvious.

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32 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

Ok - I thought you had done more with the Bones material (thought you had done previous KS).

And no, I am not thinning for the base coat - other than what happens from the wet palette.  I am thinning the washes of course.

 

I put Reaper products into the same category as DMG - companies that I wish I'd known about much sooner!  :)   

Honestly, we fell in love with Reaper paints at PAX Unplugged last year.  Stopped and talked at their booth for quite awhile, spent a lot, and have been slowly converting my paint rack since then.

What brand of paint are you using?

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2 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

I agree with Barb that testing on the back of the hand is useful to judge how much is on the brush. 

It sounds like maybe you're asking about color selection.  

Two things:

1. I have been known to do quick test pieces to test color combinations to get the full "color stack" before I commit to a model.  Use sprues, discarded extra parts, popsicle sticks, whatever.  With a good brush on primer, it doesn't take long to messily dab some paint on something to see if you like the result.  When I did the Tin Man for the Shadows of Brimstone contest, I actually painted some extra models with 3 different combinations of colors and then picked the one I liked best for the contest piece.

2. Reaper sells "triads."  This takes the guesswork out.  For my Kingdom Death contest entry for Miniature Monthly, I knew I wanted his sash to be teal, but I had no teal paint.  Reaper sold a 3-pack blister of paints that got me 90% there - I still needed to shade down the dark paint to be darker and the lightest needed to be brighter in a few places (so I took their 3 pack and made 5 colors from it).  (I'm really not trying to be a Reaper sales promoter, honest!)

 

Aha, I see your reply.  Honestly, knowing when you're "done" is always subjective.  I try to do just a little more than what I think I need.  Hold the model at arm's length (not under your desk light) to see how it looks in the room.  Also, our acrylic paints always lose a little bit of intensity (aka saturation) as they dry - so that wash that looks great wet will be less intense dry, and that dry brushing that looks wonderful will "dry in" and be less obvious.

According to @Konas, if you are not sure you are done, then you are not done.

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3 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

I agree with Barb that testing on the back of the hand is useful to judge how much is on the brush. 

It sounds like maybe you're asking about color selection.  

Two things:

1. I have been known to do quick test pieces to test color combinations to get the full "color stack" before I commit to a model.  Use sprues, discarded extra parts, popsicle sticks, whatever.  With a good brush on primer, it doesn't take long to messily dab some paint on something to see if you like the result.  When I did the Tin Man for the Shadows of Brimstone contest, I actually painted some extra models with 3 different combinations of colors and then picked the one I liked best for the contest piece.

2. Reaper sells "triads."  This takes the guesswork out.  For my Kingdom Death contest entry for Miniature Monthly, I knew I wanted his sash to be teal, but I had no teal paint.  Reaper sold a 3-pack blister of paints that got me 90% there - I still needed to shade down the dark paint to be darker and the lightest needed to be brighter in a few places (so I took their 3 pack and made 5 colors from it).  (I'm really not trying to be a Reaper sales promoter, honest!)

 

Aha, I see your reply.  Honestly, knowing when you're "done" is always subjective.  I try to do just a little more than what I think I need.  Hold the model at arm's length (not under your desk light) to see how it looks in the room.  Also, our acrylic paints always lose a little bit of intensity (aka saturation) as they dry - so that wash that looks great wet will be less intense dry, and that dry brushing that looks wonderful will "dry in" and be less obvious.

Not so much asking about colors, as saying I was doing very mild differences of color (again due to my theater background). 

I.e.  If my base was 'blue'.  I was doing a wash that was like 3 part blue, 1 part black, 6 part water or something.  And then I'd barely notice the difference.

The reaper stuff is making me understand that just the black, or 1/1/3 or something works better.

Basically what you are saying.. that the differences 'blend in' as it dries, so I can use a higher contrast than I thought - both to wash and to highlight.

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3 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

I put Reaper products into the same category as DMG - companies that I wish I'd known about much sooner!  :)   

Honestly, we fell in love with Reaper paints at PAX Unplugged last year.  Stopped and talked at their booth for quite awhile, spent a lot, and have been slowly converting my paint rack since then.

What brand of paint are you using?

Well for the kits, I'm using the reaper paints.. since they tell you the colors/mixes to use.

Most of my stock is Vallejo though.

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OK.  I got the 09796: Modern Brights Colors ($10.99) combo.  Neon Yellow, Punk Rock Pink, and LED Blue.  I came close to getting a mini or two, but behaved myself.  If the otter hand been male, I would have gotten it and painted that for @Konas for Christmas.

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21 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

Not so much asking about colors, as saying I was doing very mild differences of color (again due to my theater background). 

I.e.  If my base was 'blue'.  I was doing a wash that was like 3 part blue, 1 part black, 6 part water or something.  And then I'd barely notice the difference.

The reaper stuff is making me understand that just the black, or 1/1/3 or something works better.

Basically what you are saying.. that the differences 'blend in' as it dries, so I can use a higher contrast than I thought - both to wash and to highlight.

 

There are a ton of variables in play.  A really subtle wash (like your first mix) can be very useful for drawing out fine detail, for example.  And if it's not intense enough, just apply another layer of wash.  There are a lot of painters that build up several very thin layers to get the result they want.

Lately, I've been more inclined to start with a premixed wash that's a little more opaque (Reaper Black Wash is a really deep blue/black) and thinning it just a bit to let the highlights pop through.  I did most of my Kingdom Death this way.

Most recently, I've been trying to use even more potent washes but applying them ONLY where I want a shadow.  So I'll actually take a premixed wash, add a dollup of paint to amp it up, and then lay that into a recess.  Using a 2nd clean (or slightly damp) brush, I then feather the edges and move the pigment where it wants to go and erase the "ponding" marks that will result if you let the edge dry naturally.

The third method sounds like more work, but since I'm building highlights with the airbrush, and then I build shadows in the recesses only where I want them, I can skip the dry brush/highlighting step at the end.  This is how I did the doomsday device that I posted earlier.

If you were inclined, I would recommend a Miniature Monthly Patreon and then watching Lessons #16-18 for weathering and washe.  I've seen the video 2-3 times now and have taken Aaron's weathering class twice.  It's changed how I paint.

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19 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

 

 

There are a ton of variables in play.  A really subtle wash (like your first mix) can be very useful for drawing out fine detail, for example.  And if it's not intense enough, just apply another layer of wash.  There are a lot of painters that build up several very thin layers to get the result they want.

Lately, I've been more inclined to start with a premixed wash that's a little more opaque (Reaper Black Wash is a really deep blue/black) and thinning it just a bit to let the highlights pop through.  I did most of my Kingdom Death this way.

Most recently, I've been trying to use even more potent washes but applying them ONLY where I want a shadow.  So I'll actually take a premixed wash, add a dollup of paint to amp it up, and then lay that into a recess.  Using a 2nd clean (or slightly damp) brush, I then feather the edges and move the pigment where it wants to go and erase the "ponding" marks that will result if you let the edge dry naturally.

The third method sounds like more work, but since I'm building highlights with the airbrush, and then I build shadows in the recesses only where I want them, I can skip the dry brush/highlighting step at the end.  This is how I did the doomsday device that I posted earlier.

If you were inclined, I would recommend a Miniature Monthly Patreon and then watching Lessons #16-18 for weathering and washe.  I've seen the video 2-3 times now and have taken Aaron's weathering class twice.  It's changed how I paint.

Well as is obvious, I still have a lot to learn.  Not sure I'm up to the point your suggesting yet.  But I'll keep it in mind.

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Some WIP shots of my next project -- Shadows of Brimstone Depth Tracker.  This is a resin piece that replaces the cardboard template included in the game.  I've had it for quite awhile, and we've used it unpainted, but it's time to get on with finishing it.

Bare primer.  The reading glasses behind it should help give scale.  It's pretty darn big!

20181112_184216.thumb.jpg.da641bbb0c8b599028882b107fa0e7b7.jpg

 

I hit the wooden frame in AP Dark Stone first and pretty much coated the entire piece.  I came back with some medium brown (I think AP calls this 'fur brown') to lighten the areas that will be parchment.  For speed, I decided to airbrush this too, meaning I had to mask off the wood.  Inefficient, but still faster overall.

20181118_120943.thumb.jpg.ce3133cebfd2687c8622aa87a175503a.jpg

 

Here, the parchment areas have been airbrushed with Skeleton Bone and the masking tape has been removed.  I went back over the oversprayed wood areas with Dark Stone and made the Depth Track "sign" a consistent lighter brown.  I'm dreading doing all of the lettering.  :)

20181118_122541.thumb.jpg.2f44f63ec0716a22576264e216e8e3b3.jpg

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