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6 hours ago, Zoxe said:

I haven't looked to see if he will be at PAX-U, but the Badger booth has had some outrageous convention prices.

Good outrageous or bad outrageous.

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5 hours ago, Barb Bliss said:

Good outrageous or bad outrageous.

Good!

Well, bad for me, hah. 

At Gencon and again at Reapercon, I saw convention prices that had a dual pack of the Patriot 105 and Sotar 2020 (the wide area and detail brushes, respectively) for about the same $$ as what I paid for my Sotar alone.  Made me get a knot in my stomach and move on to the next booth. :P

 

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7 hours ago, Thomas Browne said:

Assuming they'd be listed as Badger -- they aren't on the exhibitor list as of yesterday.  But I have seen several updates over the past few days.. so it doesn't mean it's final yet.

I don't recall him being there last year.  At Gencon and Reapercon he's listed as Badger. 

What link are you using to view the PAXU vendors?  I looked, but couldn't find it.

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3 hours ago, Zoxe said:

I don't recall him being there last year.  At Gencon and Reapercon he's listed as Badger. 

What link are you using to view the PAXU vendors?  I looked, but couldn't find it.

I'm using the App to see it.  I agree - doesn't seem to be a list online anywhere.

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@Thomas Browne @Konas

Apparently badger is having a crazy sale in honor of the founders 55th birthday.... any airbrush they make for $55.  Details are on the badger Facebook page ... have to read the post and follow some simple instructions.

If you are trying to choose, the 105 is the general purpose brush. I use mine for high volume. The Sotar or Krome make good detail brushes and shoot inks wonderfully.

 

😁😁

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21 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

@Thomas Browne @Konas

Apparently badger is having a crazy sale in honor of the founders 55th birthday.... any airbrush they make for $55.  Details are on the badger Facebook page ... have to read the post and follow some simple instructions.

If you are trying to choose, the 105 is the general purpose brush. I use mine for high volume. The Sotar or Krome make good detail brushes and shoot inks wonderfully.

 

😁😁

Wow, thanks for the heads up! Sounds like a great deal. I will look into it.

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31 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

@Thomas Browne @Konas

Apparently badger is having a crazy sale in honor of the founders 55th birthday.... any airbrush they make for $55.  Details are on the badger Facebook page ... have to read the post and follow some simple instructions.

If you are trying to choose, the 105 is the general purpose brush. I use mine for high volume. The Sotar or Krome make good detail brushes and shoot inks wonderfully.

 

😁😁

Agreed with Konas - thanks for the heads up on this.

I've shared and send the email - will see what happens.  I will still need to buy the rest of the stuff, but this seems like too good of an offer to turn down as a starting point.

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Damn I wish I had money I want a brush with a larger needle for priming and base coating.

I do really like my Krome it is far more capable then I am.

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On 1/4/2019 at 2:59 PM, Zoxe said:

@Thomas Browne @Konas

Apparently badger is having a crazy sale in honor of the founders 55th birthday.... any airbrush they make for $55.  Details are on the badger Facebook page ... have to read the post and follow some simple instructions.

If you are trying to choose, the 105 is the general purpose brush. I use mine for high volume. The Sotar or Krome make good detail brushes and shoot inks wonderfully.

 

😁😁

@Zoxe  So while I am waiting for the email from Badger.. I wanted your thoughts.

Clearly I'm going to get a Patriot.. but apparently they offer the add-ons, as well as being able to order as many airbrushes at that price as you want.

1)  If I'm only starting - is it still worth buying both the Patriot and a Sotar at this price?  Or would the Patriot be enough for me?

2) Do you have other needles for your patriot?  i.e. I'm wondering if just getting the fine nozzle would be sufficient as opposed to getting a Sotar immediately. 

3)  Similarly does the standard needle work fine for priming, or should I consider the larger .7 kit?

4) I know you have the Patriot and Sotar.. have you handled a Patriot Extreme at all?  It comes with a smaller needle, so I'd figure I'd need at least one wider one.  Just wondering if the higher trigger is harder/easier to use.

 

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39 minutes ago, Thomas Browne said:

@Zoxe  So while I am waiting for the email from Badger.. I wanted your thoughts.

Clearly I'm going to get a Patriot.. but apparently they offer the add-ons, as well as being able to order as many airbrushes at that price as you want.

1)  If I'm only starting - is it still worth buying both the Patriot and a Sotar at this price?  Or would the Patriot be enough for me?

2) Do you have other needles for your patriot?  i.e. I'm wondering if just getting the fine nozzle would be sufficient as opposed to getting a Sotar immediately. 

3)  Similarly does the standard needle work fine for priming, or should I consider the larger .7 kit?

4) I know you have the Patriot and Sotar.. have you handled a Patriot Extreme at all?  It comes with a smaller needle, so I'd figure I'd need at least one wider one.  Just wondering if the higher trigger is harder/easier to use.

 

@Thomas Browne

Typing on phone. Please excuse any unintended terseness. 😁

1) You can do quite a bit with the standard patriot. If I could only have 1 brush, it would be that one.  If you think that you will be doing more details, then yes I would probably try to get the Sotar too.  For example, I prime, basecoat, and zenithal highlight (a 3 color stack) with the 105. For weathering (inks and washes), touching up shadows, adding glow effects or fixing highlights, I reach for the sotar.  All if these things can be done with a hand brush if you're determined to learn the techniques (I'm not, haha).

2. No extra needles. I run our patriot box stock. I have other needles for the sotar and have never used them.  On a few occasions, I've used both brushes in the same session, i.e. popped the patriot off the air line, slapped some ink in the sotar, and then proceeded to fix the huge mistake I just made, hah.  Then took off with the patriot again. This would be moderately less convenient with swapping needles. But again, think about your anticipated usage scenarios.

3. I haven't had trouble priming (clogging) with the std needle, but I clear my brush with full on blasts to a paper towel every few minutes. This blows all the crud out (paint boogers 😉). I shoot a lot of black, and yes they do shoot easier than white primer, but after some experience it all works. I have had trouble with some bright silver metallics flowing well, but never enough to thwart what I was trying to do.  The metallics just "feel" different, and require some patience and a little heavier trigger. (I shoot silvers out if the sotar too).  Side note.. clogs sounded really scary when i started. They are truly not a big deal.

4.  No experience with the patriot extreme. I've got limited time on the Krome, which is very similar to the sotar, but from memory a little heavier.

 

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53 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

@Thomas Browne

Typing on phone. Please excuse any unintended terseness. 😁

1) You can do quite a bit with the standard patriot. If I could only have 1 brush, it would be that one.  If you think that you will be doing more details, then yes I would probably try to get the Sotar too.  For example, I prime, basecoat, and zenithal highlight (a 3 color stack) with the 105. For weathering (inks and washes), touching up shadows, adding glow effects or fixing highlights, I reach for the sotar.  All if these things can be done with a hand brush if you're determined to learn the techniques (I'm not, haha).

2. No extra needles. I run our patriot box stock. I have other needles for the sotar and have never used them.  On a few occasions, I've used both brushes in the same session, i.e. popped the patriot off the air line, slapped some ink in the sotar, and then proceeded to fix the huge mistake I just made, hah.  Then took off with the patriot again. This would be moderately less convenient with swapping needles. But again, think about your anticipated usage scenarios.

3. I haven't had trouble priming (clogging) with the std needle, but I clear my brush with full on blasts to a paper towel every few minutes. This blows all the crud out (paint boogers 😉). I shoot a lot of black, and yes they do shoot easier than white primer, but after some experience it all works. I have had trouble with some bright silver metallics flowing well, but never enough to thwart what I was trying to do.  The metallics just "feel" different, and require some patience and a little heavier trigger. (I shoot silvers out if the sotar too).  Side note.. clogs sounded really scary when i started. They are truly not a big deal.

4.  No experience with the patriot extreme. I've got limited time on the Krome, which is very similar to the sotar, but from memory a little heavier.

 

That helps a lot.  Thank you.

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On 1/9/2019 at 12:39 PM, Zoxe said:

@Thomas Browne

Typing on phone. Please excuse any unintended terseness. 😁

1) You can do quite a bit with the standard patriot. If I could only have 1 brush, it would be that one.  If you think that you will be doing more details, then yes I would probably try to get the Sotar too.  For example, I prime, basecoat, and zenithal highlight (a 3 color stack) with the 105. For weathering (inks and washes), touching up shadows, adding glow effects or fixing highlights, I reach for the sotar.  All if these things can be done with a hand brush if you're determined to learn the techniques (I'm not, haha).

2. No extra needles. I run our patriot box stock. I have other needles for the sotar and have never used them.  On a few occasions, I've used both brushes in the same session, i.e. popped the patriot off the air line, slapped some ink in the sotar, and then proceeded to fix the huge mistake I just made, hah.  Then took off with the patriot again. This would be moderately less convenient with swapping needles. But again, think about your anticipated usage scenarios.

3. I haven't had trouble priming (clogging) with the std needle, but I clear my brush with full on blasts to a paper towel every few minutes. This blows all the crud out (paint boogers 😉). I shoot a lot of black, and yes they do shoot easier than white primer, but after some experience it all works. I have had trouble with some bright silver metallics flowing well, but never enough to thwart what I was trying to do.  The metallics just "feel" different, and require some patience and a little heavier trigger. (I shoot silvers out if the sotar too).  Side note.. clogs sounded really scary when i started. They are truly not a big deal.

4.  No experience with the patriot extreme. I've got limited time on the Krome, which is very similar to the sotar, but from memory a little heavier.

 

Ok - so ordered the Patriot, as well as the roller trigger.  I figure I can switch out and decide which I like for $10. :)

Oh - and got the hose with the disconnect and moisture trap as well, just to pick up a few of the pieces of your suggested set up.

Held off on the Sotar or on a second needle kit until I actually start using it.

 

Now I just need to buy all the rest of the stuff I need :D

 

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5 hours ago, Thomas Browne said:

Ok - so ordered the Patriot, as well as the roller trigger.  I figure I can switch out and decide which I like for $10. :)

Oh - and got the hose with the disconnect and moisture trap as well, just to pick up a few of the pieces of your suggested set up.

Held off on the Sotar or on a second needle kit until I actually start using it.

 

Now I just need to buy all the rest of the stuff I need :D

Don't spray paint onto your new redheart rails by accident.

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5 hours ago, Thomas Browne said:

Ok - so ordered the Patriot, as well as the roller trigger.  I figure I can switch out and decide which I like for $10. :)

Oh - and got the hose with the disconnect and moisture trap as well, just to pick up a few of the pieces of your suggested set up.

Held off on the Sotar or on a second needle kit until I actually start using it.

 

Now I just need to buy all the rest of the stuff I need :D

 

Sounds awesome.  Trigger swap is a 30 second thing on the Patriot, assuming the bowl is empty of paint. 

I like your approach.  You'll get the feel of it quickly just shooting primer and basecoats.  Once you've used it a little, you'll know when you're itching to try something with more detail.

The main thing is, don't be afraid of it. I got my kit and it sat for 6+ months because I had mental images of paint flying everywhere and making a huge mess.  When I finally worked up the courage to get into it, I realized pretty quickly that it really isn't all that sinister. 

You will get clogs.  Clogs are not a big deal, and happen every session. Just spray 100% onto a paper towel every few minutes and they'll clear.  After a little while, you'll start to 'feel' it starting to clog.

You will get dry tip.  Just knock it off with a paper towel or a fingernail.

Cleaning is not hard.  You'll get into a rhythm.

You will not shoot paint everywhere.  I usually warm up (and test consistency) with a few shots to the paper towel, then a few shots to the back of my off hand, and then I get to work.  I have had a few 'oh crap' moments but I have never ruined a model, and many of my surprises look better than what I'd actually intended.  (Just act like you planned it that way).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Barb Bliss said:

Don't spray paint onto your new redheart rails by accident.

oh - I won't be painting anywhere near that :)

 

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A few more random things while I'm thinking about it:

I'm left handed but I run my airbrush right handed.  I didn't plan it this way, it's just how I picked things up; realized after what I'd done.  It feels more natural to use my dominant hand to hold and control the figure.  When I first started, I would start the spray off the model, look for the right amount of paint coming out, hold the airbrush hand steady and then move the model into the spray.  With more throttle control, both hands are working as I go.  Mrs. Zoxe is also a lefty and uses her left hand to hold the brush (which means when we share the booth we have to swap our setup around! :) )

I didn't buy airbrush specific paint.  I use my normal Reaper, ArmyPainter, Scale75, Privateer Press, etc.  I use Vallejo Airbrush Thinner to thin paint in a 1oz Solo shot cup (buy on amazon in bulk).  I can't give you the recipe for how much thinner to paint, each bottle is different.  But my goal is always "just thin enough to shoot" which is thicker than you'd think.  Reaper paint comes out of the bottle needing very little thinning.  Also, I don't throw away the 1oz shot cups immediately. I flip them over and use the bottom as a mini-palette for hand brushing unthinned washes, fillers, etc.

I don't scrape the bottom of the solo cup.  Mix a little more than you think you need.  All the heavy chunks will go to the bottom.  When I transfer to the airbrush, I leave a little behind to avoid putting this crud into the bowl.

I did buy airbrush specific primer.  Vallejo Surface primer, and more recently Stynlrez.  On most models I'll end up touching up the primer in hard to reach areas.

Practice short bursts.  I run a high psi (35-40) and pulse the trigger in 1 second burps, using very little trigger.  The better you get at these little pulses, the easier it will be to shift into detail work like weathering and shadows.

Inks are super fun.  I've been expanding my collection of liquitex inks.  I started with some weathering colors (burnt umber, sienna) and quickly moved into colors (carbon black, titanium white, lime green).  I also have the ArmyPainter set of Inks/Washes in colors (blue, red, purple).  These go in the brush unthinned.  I am still learning how to use these, but it's really easy to add a lot of depth to a model quickly.  

 

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2 hours ago, Thomas Browne said:

@Zoxe  Do you thin the primer?  If so - do you use the same Airbrush Thinner or do they require something else?

I do add a little thinner to Vallejo Surface Primer.  I have heard that some guys don't, but i always have.

I don't thin stynlrez. Stynlrez needs a really good shaking though, it separates in the bottle.

I use Vallejo airbrush thinner for anything that needs thinned. I know there are home recipes out there but have left it to the experts. 

It's hard to describe my thinning methods in text. If you wipe the brush on the side of the mixing cup and it stays as a gelatinous glop or doesn't move through the bristles, that's too thick. If you shoot some on the back of your hand and it runs instantly (spider legs) that's too thin. It's easier for me to deal with paint that's too thin than too thick. And yes, I have dumped out a cup of paint and started over. 😉

Edited by Zoxe

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3 minutes ago, Zoxe said:

I do add a little thinner to Vallejo Surface Primer.  I have heard that some guys don't, but i always have.

I don't thin stynlrez. Stynlrez needs a really good shaking though, it separates in the bottle.

I use Vallejo airbrush thinner for anything that needs thinned. I know there are home recipes out there but have left it to the experts. 

It's hard to describe my thinning methods in text. If you wipe the brush on the side of the mixing cup and it stays as a gelatinous glop or doesn't move through the bristles, that's too thick. If you shoot some on the back of your hand and it runs instantly (spider legs) that's too thin. It's easier for me to deal with paint that's too thin than too thick. And yes, I have dumped out a cup of paint and started over. 😉

One more question (for now :D ):

How much do you think having the 'tank' on the air compressor helps?

Basically I look on amazon - and the Aspire Pro is actually the same price as the Aspire Elite (which seem to be identical other than the tank on the Pro).

They're both roughly the same price as the Pro is on usaairbrush.com.

 

On the other hand.. they are $20 more than the plain Aspire on Amazon, and $50 more than the plain Aspire on usairbrush.com.

I'm not even sure what the difference is between the Aspire and the Elite other than the 'baffle'/'case' around it.

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having a tank would mean the compressor doesn't have to be running all the time which would help with noise and longevity of the compressor. Also the tank helps to normalize airflow allowing for a more consistent and steady air output.

I am currently using a small garage compressor with a tank with an additional air tank (made from an old propane tank) as well. This allows me to have a large quantity of air to go through before the compressor needs to kick on to refill. 

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1 minute ago, Thomas Browne said:

One more question (for now :D😞

How much do you think having the 'tank' on the air compressor helps?

Basically I look on amazon - and the Aspire Pro is actually the same price as the Aspire Elite (which seem to be identical other than the tank on the Pro).

They're both roughly the same price as the Pro is on usaairbrush.com.

 

On the other hand.. they are $20 more than the plain Aspire on Amazon, and $50 more than the plain Aspire on usairbrush.com.

I'm not even sure what the difference is between the Aspire and the Elite other than the 'baffle'/'case' around it.

We have one of each type of compressor. 

I am "supposed" to say that the tanked compressor gives a more consistent psi and therefore a better result, but in practice I can't say it's helped or hurt me. I own a tanked and like it but would go back if I had to.

A tanked compressor should be less likely to send water up the hose because with tankless the air is still quite hot when it goes past the first moisture trap. I run a 2nd trap, and used to get moisture in it on the tankless but don't get any now.

Another aspect is noise. Tankless will run basically any time the trigger is pressed.  Start/stop/start/stop.  Tanked will pump up, run down, and then pump back up. I flip mine on before I mix paint and it's good to go once I'm ready to spray. But once it starts running its going to run for awhile. I still end up waiting on the tanked compressor during a high volume session like basecoating or when I'm cleaning the brush at the end.

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How much does the noise bother you?

Is it worth buying the 'silent' air compressors?

Actually I should be more specific -- is it loud enough that you would want to wear ear protection when using the normal compressor?

Edited by Thomas Browne

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7 hours ago, Thomas Browne said:

How much does the noise bother you?

Is it worth buying the 'silent' air compressors?

Actually I should be more specific -- is it loud enough that you would want to wear ear protection when using the normal compressor?

No hearing protection required. They're actually very quiet compared to a utility air compressor that you might have in your garage.  

Most of the time, it's just a distracting humm/rattle.  Not much louder than a typical action movie.  I wouldn't run them in a quiet house while everyone else is sleeping, but really not that bad.  My airbrush booth is actually louder - with both of them going it can be annoying to Mrs. Zoxe watching TV half a room away.

 

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My end goal is to just run hoses from the garage into the house(under ground and through the foundation as work space is downstairs) and just use the larger compressor for airbrushing. Maybe have a small storage tank inside to help with pressure regulation but that's it. So unless your in the garage you will only hear a fan and the air coming out of the brush.

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